The Grand Patchwork

Murphy'sLaw ...remember that I am a quantitative empiricist (show me thenumbers). I never prove, nor disprove anything, just provide evidence:-) :-) :-)

Those type I and type II errors are out there playingtricks on us (note: the anthropomorphizing was in jest I do not thinkthat Type and type II errors have any sort of consciousness, intention,or sense of humour :-) :-) )

I read parts of your essays ...

Idid notice that you used the "in the expected direction" phrase that Isuggested you remove years ago :-) :-) :-) However, you did not includethe table of hits versus misses that would accompany this stat. so. Ilooked it up and assuming I got the correct data set. You had 58 trialsand 16 hits (correct answers) where chance would have predicted 14.5.i.e. you expected 14 or 15 (out of 58) and got 16 (in both music and nomusic condictions combined).

If we look at JUST the music condition,which shoud improve ESP as I understand it, then you expected 6.5 (outof 26) but got 8 hits, which is still not significant. So I looked athow many people you would need for this size of effect to besignificant and you would have needed over 200 people to show an effectin the music condition. i.e. IF ESP exists it is very, very weak.

Anyway,come knock on my door again sometime and you can roll your eyes at me,and my boring non-beliefs in person :-) ;-) :-) ;-)

then we can go get a drink.

Response:...sure!!!I'd like that and haha ooooops i did keep that in about in the expecteddirection. I knew there was something going on in there that wassomewhat promising,but I guess I didn't see it. are you saying that ifI combined the two conditions my result was above chance??? I thought Idid that and found non-significant levels. And, yes, it was just notfeasible to run 200 participants because I could only run 2 at a time.I would have needed another year lol! The metaanalysis seeks anyresults - significant or non and could very easily get this published -at risk of career suicide of course Also, if ESP and similaroccurrences were experienced at a level above chance, they would not berare and people would not experience the mystical or noetic quality theexperience can bring. This experience is important to people and makesthem feel special. If it happened to everyone, all the time, itwouldn't be important or have a aha! oh wow feeling. They are supposedto be rare otherwise they would not be significant (in this case in thelives of people and their experience). So, the stats are not supposedto be significant, to allow the experience to remain significant - doesthat make sense?? But I will say that you are (we are) using the wrongtools to measure the phenomenon. Perhaps a more Phenomenologicalapproach may work. (still empirical) all case studies could be broughttogether and different features could be Content Analyzed. You wouldfind similar experiences as Mystical experience, OBE's Near deathexperience, Lucid dreams.....all being ineffable, noetic (things arelearned), transient and sometimes passive etc.

Topic: DreamsDelete Topic|Reply to TopicDisplaying posts 1 - 30 out of 31.12NextEric Szapiel Do dreams come true? or is it just a sense of deja vu? May 3, 2007 at 7:54am · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete PostSandra Kroekerone sixth of dreams according to Kabbalah and Zohar teachings isprophesy. If you could sift through all the other crap and know whichdreams were meant as preminition, we would be all the wiser!May 3, 2007 at 1:57pm · Delete PostEric Szapiel I grow wise with my dreams of bugs bunny

ButI have had a instance where I seen a premenision and saved myself. Itsstrange how you cant remember dreams afterwards unless it gave you astrong feeling. Maybe its best to write them all down.May 4, 2007 at 12:47am · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete PostSandra KroekerI do have a dream journal and have gone back to some dreams realizingit took 3 months for some to happen. Some of them were even seen out ofsomeone elses' eyes, and the dream was for them and about someone closeto me - weird!!!!! That gives me an idea for a new topic! Do youbeleive in a collective conciousness, collective unconscious or a"social field"May 4, 2007 at 1:36pm · Delete PostTim Murphy Now I know that I am going to bring a very different slant to this, but do you remember type I error? :-) :-)

Dreams are semi-random firing of neurons during a time when our frontal lobes are being activily inhibited as part of sleep.

1/6 come true because even in sleep our brain are working and "thinking" about problems, the future, etc.

Withoutthe frontal lobes imposing the same degree of order they do during theday our brains can be more creative, and make more remote associationsduring sleep. Some of these will "come true" but most do not. We canonly sort through what has worked or come true and what did not afterit has happened and we look back to try and find meaning.

I am NOTsaying dreams are meaningless, but any foretelling of the future (asidefrom the probabiliteis of any guess based on knowledge of a situation,and goals associated with it) are very tenuous at best.May 6, 2007 at 8:28pm · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete PostKatie Walters TIM!!!! I absolutely LOVE how you brought stats into this hahaMay 6, 2007 at 10:46pm · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete PostTim Murphy Ya, not very philosophical I guess. :-) :-)

but hey, it is my implicit job in life to give Sandra a hard time. :-) :-)

If we had a TV show she would be Mulder and I could be Scully :-) :-) :-)

May 7, 2007 at 4:13pm · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete PostSandra Kroekerlol! But dreams cannot be due to the random firing of neurons becaseuthen the chances of having a recurring dream or a dream that you've hadbefore would be so rare that hardly anyone would have them. I know manypeople who have had recurring dreams, including myself. I have even hadmore than one dream occur again. How can random firing of neuronsexplain this??May 7, 2007 at 9:56pm · Delete PostKatie Walters Hehehe. Yes, I remember 340 and you giving Sandra a hard time the whole year :pMay 7, 2007 at 10:36pm · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete PostTim Murphy Sandra, you missed the "semi" part. :-)

Neurons fire and the spreading activation will "light up" pathways.

This is turn, will cause memories, emotions, etc to be activated.

Ifsomething is important to you, the neuron associated with that memoryor emotion are likely stored, or associated with a large number ofneurons so they will be activated more often.

Let's say I ask 10people to write down 100 words (single words, one per piece of paper)and if a word was more important to them write it down more than once,and then select 10 of those 100 words at random. I now randomlyassemble those words and ask those people to make up a story based onthese semi-random words, in random order. I'll bet that at least of fewof those stories will be very similar becauyse they have common wordsand they are being interpreted by the same person who has somepreconceived ideas about what those words mean to them.

Dreams canhave meaning, but in my admitedly boring opinion, their meaning comesfrom what our brains do with what concerns us, or is on our minds, whenour frontal lobes are not "off duty". :-) :-)

That is an incrediblysimplistic way of putting it, but it you are interested I have a 400+page set of journal articles in a special issue of Behavioral and BrainSciences that explains it better :-) :-)

Now Sandra knows me, butjust in case anyone else wonders, I LOVE debating stuff with Sandrabecause we have such different opinions and debate stuff all the time,and when done in person we almost always are smiling or laughingthroughout the entire discussion (and NOT that we are just laughing ateach other, we just both both like to talk about stuff, but do not takeit too seriously). May 8, 2007 at 8:12pm · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete PostSandra Kroekerlol! So totally true Tim LOVE good debate. OMG I could just imaginewhat would happen if you posted on Politics + Religion = Disastergroup. That would be awesome!!! But, your brilliant and elabourationexplanation still doesn't quite explain prophetic dreams (dreams thatcome true) or deja vu! Or Hey, why don't you start with something a biteasier and explain lucid dreaming!!! Lucid dreaming is not quitefitting into your explanation either lol!May 9, 2007 at 11:24pm · Delete PostTim Murphy Lucid dreamers do not have their frontal lobes properly inhibited.

This has yet to be tested, but the theory fits.

Also, I tred to explain why some dreams come true.

AsI mentioned if you wrote down say 20 words that have meaning for you,then we selected sevral at random and asked an independent person tomake up a story based on those randomly selected from words from yourNON-random list. A certain proportion of them would come true (or beclose enough hat you would perceive them as becoming true).

DejuVu, well, our memories are simply perceptions and we "create" ourperceptions so sometimes, we alter our perceptions to fit our schemas.It is in the same class as eye witness testimony in many ways.

Anyway, I must go. As much fin as this is, my actual work calls :-) :-)May 10, 2007 at 12:32am · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete PostTim MurphyOh ya I forgot. If you want to venture over to the dark side, There isa (rather long) article by Hobson et al (2000) when they outline theirAIM model (arousal, input, modulation) to explain dreaming. I do notagree with all of it, but it is interesting.

May 10, 2007 at 12:37am · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete PostSandra Kroeker So are you saying that dreams don't come true?May 30, 2007 at 1:54pm · Delete PostTim MurphyNot at all, just that they do not come true above chance level(considering that they are NOT random in their expression, even if theybegins as SEMI-random neuronal firing) :-)June 1, 2007 at 6:41pm · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete PostEmm TuThat's very interesting. I come from a family that believes in thesignificance of dreams religiously. Certain dreams mean certain thingsto my parents, and as I grew up and had certain dreams myself whichseemed to mark things that would happen, I became a believer as well. Ittly understand where you come from as far as us altering ourperceptions to fit our schemas, and I see how things could just happenin your dreams that signify something that will happen as being up tochance. However, one of the many interesting scenarios that happened tome personally kept coming to my mind as I read this discussion....

In our custom, people believe that if you dream of a wedding or you seemoney in your dream, someone in your family or close to you will die.We also believe that dreaming of fish means someone is pregnant, anddreaming of a funeral means a birth, as well as dreaming of someone youspecifically know dying is good luck for them. I didn't know this,however, when I was about five years old and had a dream that a couplewas getting married. I didn't know who they were because I only sawtheir backs, but I later told my mother about it, and she became verynervous. The next day, we got a call letting us know that an uncle hadpassed away. A few years later, I dreamed that someone was countingmoney out on a counter. When I told my mum, she began to cry, and sureenough, the next day, someone close in the family died. This has alwayshappened to me and those in my family.

I have lived and died, and returned again , all this brilliance going to waste presupposing the proof of ESP using primitive means, and experiment in this noisy ambience.  Then talk of zero-point energy experiments, then relativity, while  Maxwells equations still stand the test of time - dont thnk einsteins will.

When who I thought was a friend lay there dying of cancer Peter Cripzcuk  yes the famed and awarded NLP, bio energy , resonant being - yes hes a member of RG ,  I spoke with him, lived with him , even treated his hardest case , and gave her so much oil mixtures she could not carry the bag out to her car  - Peter has video of her , he was massaging her , I saw his gentleness.  With his family he was another being.  Dora is a great parasitologist , and I was happy to leave my Mead 200 auoteverything telescope , Olympus microscope and .002 Lux hi sensitivity video camera, new HD 32 inch , 24 bit digital / recorder., apart from dozens of vibrational items just after my Mom passed.  Even the new washing machine, and my surfboard gifted by Billabong partner.

He had Deepak Chopra send him machines, Angela her singing bowl , he had every electronic system his mind could summon , I was lucky to get my 6 channel holographic Amplifiers back.  I  still gave him sound advice, his cancer did not resond to ascorbic acid because it was lymph cancer , So I advised him to take an ester.  Makes sense ?    We need to work.

There are tuning forks used that vibrate and break down tumers. Each type of cancer has a frequency and different frequencies break down different cancers.